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Old 10-19-2016, 04:02 AM   #41
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Indeed, i'd rather one good critique than hundreds of non comittal posts saying "it's nice" :/ i don't like how in social media i'm even afraid to make honest feedback because so many people have a terrible attitude towards critique, and it follows me because i'm posting with my real name. it's a pity that not many people post anymore because pk was basically my art education when i started out. I'm back in school (studying animation in gobelins) so i have much more time to do more personal work. When i have more stuff i'll probably set up a tumblr but just to show work, i dont like the style of the tumblr community overall though... i'm glad theres some familiar faces hanging around here though everyne knows everyone so we can tailor our critiques which i like.
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Old 10-19-2016, 04:16 AM   #42
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One thing I did find very useful with deviantArt is just looking at what other artists are doing. ConceptArt.org was the premiere art forum for technique, but most of the art was focused on industry level conceptual design, which is not what I wanted to head towards. DeviantArt has a LOT of really good anime/anime influenced artists. There's a lot of stuff I've picked up just by studying some of the techniques they use.

That and marketing yourself. That's not something they teach, but I've learned quite a bit just by observing what other popular artists are doing or did to become popular.
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:28 AM   #43
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Indeed i agree it's useful for learning from other artists to be exposed to a lot of work on these megasites. I'm more interested in getting one on one critique though so I don't spend much time posting on them :/ conceptart was kind of overpopulated the last time i checked so it was quite hard to get critique, idk if it's better now.
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Old 10-19-2016, 11:45 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrapho
Indeed i agree it's useful for learning from other artists to be exposed to a lot of work on these megasites. I'm more interested in getting one on one critique though so I don't spend much time posting on them :/ conceptart was kind of overpopulated the last time i checked so it was quite hard to get critique, idk if it's better now.
This is kind of the problem I had with Crimson Daggers. I joined, posted my sketchbook, came back the next day to find it three pages back and 1 view. I've always liked this place because, while smaller, I know I can get honest reviews and critiques, and I am not joking when I say you guys have been a strong force behind my progress.
I like DA, Tumblr, and ArtStation as sources of inspiration (DA is kinda pushing it, though. I hardly find new stuff worth looking at) but I always rely on this place to help guide me. Most of my friends on social media are non-artists, so I, too, get a lot of "That's amazing! I can't even draw a stick figure!"

Cat, How about making a post on marketing from an artist's perspective? Lord knows some of us could use that!
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Old 10-19-2016, 03:45 PM   #45
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*Walks in*

Oh, Hello! glad to see you're all here! As most of you know i never left and i "try" to do practice and post something every weekend.

i try to study other artists on deviantart and try to get into their minds of artists and harness their artistic power. Sadly i lack mind reading and thus fail dismally. Its not helped that my main career is in IT and I've been very busy and stressed at work. Not to mention that any spare time i have is spent doing stuff not art related, like studying for IT exams for personal development or sating my gaming addiction.

Admittedly the IT exam i'm studying for is not difficult, but when they're microsoft ones, they're full of bullshit and i hate studying for work. i don't know why i procrastinate when it comes to art. i should be soaking everything up like a sponge and getting stuck in, but i seem to treat it like some sort of luxury in small bursts. Dreaming for greater stuff but not daring to push the boundaries further. Perhaps at times (i.e most of the time) when i do art it feels like i'm bashing my head against a wall or polishing turds that i'm tempted to just toss away. its normally compounded when i don't see results or i don't learn anything from them and feels like i'm wasting my time. my other problem is probably that before i attempt something i MUST have clear cut information, methods, solutions or techniques and if i don't get something or see it as not useful i discard it very quickly.


But the other question is, do i want praise? meh, i'm not sure about you guys but i feel incredibly guilty about it. When i show my work colleagues my work and they praise it, i feel very uneasy. The example i use is that people think i've built a wonderful home to live in and don't know that its a deathtrap filled with skeletons, poorly measured dimensions and the whole thing is just waiting to collapse. hell, my manager offered me the opportunity to draw the images for the IT Systems status (good, bad, red alert etc) for the new intranet. i turned him down pretty quickly stating that my skill was no where at a level that deserved to be pasted on the systems or for public viewing.
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Old 10-20-2016, 01:43 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnway
Its not helped that my main career is in IT and I've been very busy and stressed at work. Not to mention that any spare time i have is spent doing stuff not art related, like studying for IT exams for personal development or sating my gaming addiction.
Glad(?) to know I'm not they only one facing IT-related woes. Since I've started working there, I've spent much less time writing, drawing, or sculpting than I did in college, even though I can actually afford supplies now. I think it's good news that you're still able to produce things weekly.
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Old 10-20-2016, 11:31 AM   #47
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I generally try my hardest to separate my work and social life. When i'm off the clock i do what i want and relax. if i bring my work home or i think about work i generally don't relax. Currently i'm back from work and i'm already on edge after a very stressful and public meltdown at work.


At work, i try to get things sorted out. Only problem is that i appear to be a victim of my own success as they seem to call for me personally and when they ask for you personally it means you're in the firing line, you're accountable for the work and it means more pressure. What i really should do is politely tell them i cannot help them at the moment and ask them to raise a ticket and we'll sort it out accordingly. Doesn't stop people from trying to call me directly asking me to resolve something they just logged. the other worst part is that the ticket comes to me anyway and it annoys me no end that you try your hardest to close your ticket and you realize that the number is still the same as you started or its going to be higher tomorrow. its demoralizing and my colleagues aren't faring any better recently.
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:47 PM   #48
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still occasionally pop in but reluctant to post. how yall?
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Old 10-21-2016, 03:30 AM   #49
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How many hours do you guys work at IT? Isn't it usually just a 9-5 job?

Anyways, regarding marketing, I only know how to do it on dA. This is gonna be a LOOOONNNG POST.

So let's start from the basics. At this point with deviantArt's popularity and number of users, just posting your art alone is not going to get you any traffic. You'll show up for maybe a few seconds under newest artworks, but that's gonna be it.

Groups: So the first level of exposure you can use is the Groups system. By getting your art into groups you're more likely to get people who are subscribed to groups to view them. However, it quickly became clear to me that most people who are in the groups probably don't look at the groups. I tried to at first but there's just so many pics submitted that it was a chore too look through them all. I still occasionally dig through them. I'm guessing most people are the same. Long story short, the strategy with groups is to submit to as many groups as you can that are related to your theme. After a while you'll get a feel of which groups you want to focus on and which you want to trim out. I generally dont' submit to more than 20-30 groups now. Also, the more selective a group is, the more valuable getting a submission to it is, as more people will actually watch it since the quality will be higher. Getting featured in a popular but curated group is probably the best you can hope for, because when people try to upload to a group, they're going to be looking at the most recent pics submitted, and the last 4 featured pics are the first things people see when they submit to the group, so being featured in a highly selective group means you'll get a lot of exposure.

Favorite/Watch: Watching or Favoriting is tactic that I've see some deviants use. If you watch or favorite someone, there's a good chance they might check out your page to favorite you or even watch you back. However, you have to realize that this only works for people who don't get a lot of traffic. Anybody who gets a lot of favs or watches probably won't even bother to check who favorited or watched them. Also, having a shit ton of favs or watchers might look really bad when people check your stats. Its not a method I'd recommend, especially since I actually try to follow my watches.

Llamas: This is my preferred method. Since you really can't spam people with llamas (you can only give a person a llama once). It basically functions the same as favs. People who get a llama might visit your page to give a llama back, and thus possibly give you a watch if they like what they see. However, you're limited to around 60 llamas an hour. I use a llama addon that makes giving llamas a lot easier, otherwise it'd take way too much time to give that many llamas per day.

Daily Deviation: This used to be really great at getting watchers, but after they changed the system its not that great anymore since it doesn't automatically show up anywhere people easily come across.

So basically, by doing a combination of all these things along with posting art, you can slowly grow your watcher base. Of course, if you somehow get featured by a popular artists or win a contest that can help too, although I haven't had that happen yet.
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Old 10-21-2016, 04:17 AM   #50
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Okay, so the basics are out of the way, let's talk about how to really gain those views and watchers.

The goal you want to aim for is to be featured on the first 10 spots or so of the popular 24 hours listing. This is because by default, users who are logged into deviantArt defaults this page as their home page. So whether they're trying to go to their profile or check out their notifications they're going to see the top 10 deviations featured. Essentially, despite the fact that the actual 'front' page of deviantArt is a different page that they put a lot more work towards, the popular 24 hour listing became the new place where most people see the top deviations. That means that if you can get your newest deviation into that top 10, for up to 22 hours or so almost every deviant who is going to their page will end up seeing your deviation. So this is pretty much the holy grail of trying to get new watchers.

However, you'll notice that its usually dominated by people who have huge watcherbases, ie, if you're already popular, you'll get even more popular, but if you're not popular, you can't really break in. Of course, its not impossible to do so, because you'll often see deviations on there from deviants with very few watchers and relatively little views/favs compared to the popular deviations. Often that one deviations will end up having vastly more views than anything else in their gallery. So how does that happen?

Its a combination playing the categories system, having a dedicated fanbase, and a bit of luck.

DeviantArt has system where they don't want art of the same type in their popular 24 hours listing, so generally they only take the top from from each category. For example, the #1 deviation in MangaAnime/Digital Media/Drawings might be #3 on overall list, but #2 could be all the way down at #33, even if it has more views/favs than the deviations ahead of it. So you don't need to compete against other popular artists if you go for categories that are not as popular.

Not all categories are created equal. DA has been trying to promote less popular categories. For example, if you try to put your art in popular categories like Fanart or Manga/Anime, its pretty much impossible to front page because you're competing against people with 60,000+ watchers. However, there are a number of unpopular categories like Fashion Design where its a lot easier to take #1 in that slot and appear in the front page. If you're absolutely shameless you can put art in completely unrelated categories and just apologize later. That's actually happened to a few deviants who were really blatant in abusing the system.

The categories are not transparent either, for example, Manga & Anime seems to be its own category, so all the ones ranked below it are generally put in the same category. However, 'abstract' is another category that appears often in the top, but 'abstract' is listed under multiple top level categories, such as Digital Art/Mixed Media/Abstract, or Traditional Art/Drawings/Abstract.

The rankings within the categories themselves depend both on the rate you get views/favs per hour along with the fav to view ratio. I don't know the exact formula, but having a higher favorite to view ratio will allow you to beat out pics with high views but much lower ratio. Of course the absolute fav count plays a significant role too. Generally though, even if you choose a less competitive category you probably still need around 50 favs in your first hour.

So the method is to slowly grind your way until you have enough watchers so that in the first hour, enough people will favorite your work to get you to #1 in your sub category, and thus give you a chance to get into the top 10 listing in all categories.

Since I've started my account about a year ago, I was able to front page 3 times. The first time was when I had around 2.5k watchers, and I had a piece that fit in Traditional/Mixed Media, which is a very uncompetitive category. However, even though I dominated that category my overall number of views/favs was only able to put me in the #17 slot for about a few hours. The 2nd time was another Traditional/Mixed Media piece I posted when I had about 6000 watchers. That one also only front paged for a very short while, and I don't think it broke the top 20. However each time I did get a huge boost of watchers, and until recently they were my two most popular pieces.

The third time was this past Monday, where I posted my latest piece in Digital/Mixed Media/Abstract. This isn't that competitive of a category but one of the really big artists routinely posts stuff there. I made sure not to publish it when that artist published his. This time I had 13.5k or so watchers and was able to stay at the #4 spot for about 17 hours. It got me a TON of views and 166 new watchers in the 24 hour period it was up. So yeah, front paging is by far the most effective way to gain a larger fan base.

Another effect of people favoriting your art is that they show up on their page under their favorites. The more people that favorite your stuff the more it spreads, especially if someone who already has a large fanbase favorites your art and it shows up under their favorites.
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Old 10-21-2016, 10:10 AM   #51
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Thanks for that, brother.
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Old 10-24-2016, 09:51 AM   #52
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Now that I'm closing in on 51 I've decided to come out of my shell and subject the world to my way of thinking - I have a whole wellness life-style blog of non-conformity. I spend hour upon hour writing and photographing stuff for the express purpose of the blog. I could crack out my pencils and do double duty by trying to draw some of the junk for my blog and post it here as well but I don't think anyone here really wants to see drawings of squashes and bananas.

Social media doesn't come across as very sociable to me - lot's of fly by comments but not much real social type communication. Oh well, there's always the real world, inhabited (still) by real people. I must has spent an hour at a used video-game store chatting it up with the employee of the day. We talked games and movies. She said I'm funny - I get that a lot in the real world, with real people. People online don't like me as much as real people. I still love cruising through PK though.
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Old 10-24-2016, 03:00 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyte

Social media doesn't come across as very sociable to me - lot's of fly by comments but not much real social type communication. Oh well, there's always the real world, inhabited (still) by real people. I must has spent an hour at a used video-game store chatting it up with the employee of the day. We talked games and movies. She said I'm funny - I get that a lot in the real world, with real people. People online don't like me as much as real people. I still love cruising through PK though.
Your mileage may vary, but I agree, the forum format is tough to stay in touch with peeps, good for collaboration though. Chatrooms(or modern day equivalent) are a bit better, in the end its up to ourselves to be active on whatever platform you like to socialize, you can't expect people to just start talking to you and always be around when you care them to.

Also never hurts to share on PK what you make elsewhere
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Old 10-25-2016, 04:43 PM   #54
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*peeks in
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Old 10-27-2016, 02:25 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyte
Now that I'm closing in on 51 I've decided to come out of my shell and subject the world to my way of thinking - I have a whole wellness life-style blog of non-conformity. I spend hour upon hour writing and photographing stuff for the express purpose of the blog. I could crack out my pencils and do double duty by trying to draw some of the junk for my blog and post it here as well but I don't think anyone here really wants to see drawings of squashes and bananas.
Wow you are 51? I had no idea hahaha. I hope you'll post even if it's squashes and bananas. Fruits are good for everyone

@robotcat: thanks for the rundown on the dA system, lots of stuff i didn't know about before
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Old 10-28-2016, 12:45 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Anyte

Social media doesn't come across as very sociable to me - lot's of fly by comments but not much real social type communication. Oh well, there's always the real world, inhabited (still) by real people. I must has spent an hour at a used video-game store chatting it up with the employee of the day. We talked games and movies. She said I'm funny - I get that a lot in the real world, with real people. People online don't like me as much as real people. I still love cruising through PK though.
I feel like social media feels very uh, superficial in what people like to share. Either that or its too click-baity, since that's what gets the most likes/views/shares. There's also the fact that you kind of have to be either super confrontational or super non-confrontational, there's not really an in between, especially when it comes to popular controversial topics. Either you stay out of it completely or you end up getting dragged to one extreme or another.

Forums still feel like the best place for heavy discussion, since it feels like people take time to read the comments and post their thoughts in response, and this extra effort gives them time to actually think about what they're writing. Not to mention you can have conversations that go on with gaps of days or even weeks between it. With social media and even sites like reddit if its not the hot topic it'll be gone in a few hours.

astrapho: No problem ^^ I like figuring out systems and min/maxing.
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Old 10-28-2016, 07:50 AM   #57
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Quote:
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Wow you are 51? I had no idea hahaha. I hope you'll post even if it's squashes and bananas. Fruits are good for everyone
I'm half a century of wisdom... aged obnoxiousness at it's best... crotchety madness running wild. I love being old (which isn't really old until you're like 70 or 80 maybe).

Today it's my squashes and bananas (should be yams because I needed an image to go with my yamana - mashed yams and banana); tomorrow it's sketches of skirts and sweaters, or holiday crafts and room dividers.

If I practiced drawing people (in all manner of poses) I could draw little people engaging in exercise instead of trying to teach a disinterested 14 year old how to take a proper photo of me engaging in exercise.
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:11 AM   #58
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FYI - I'm not complaining about not getting on with people on the internet. I'm an odd sort of unemotional person who shares what seems negative the same as I would things that seem positive. It's all just there and I share ... carelessly.

I have emotions, naturally, but I don't often speak or type, as the case may be, from an emotional perspective but rather from a very dry clinical, observational perspective. I'm fun that way. I'm sarcastic and witty but I've learned that it's best not to use too much of that type of humor on the internet as it's often misunderstood.

Happy as a clam people! that's what I am. Though I don't think clams are any happier than they are sad. They just are. Mostly I just am too so I guess I am happy as a clam. Too bad I haven't the creative tenacity to make myself a giant happy clam for Halloween (gooby junk included).
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Old 11-03-2016, 10:14 PM   #59
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Oh man. It's been quite some time. I think I stopped contributing as much when we moved servers.

Was recently thinking about everyone who shaped my life as an artist. Miss you guys!
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Old 11-08-2016, 03:09 PM   #60
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i drew these photograph for all of y'all



crits please
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