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Old 03-26-2007, 03:18 AM   #1
3rdey3
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Black and White girl with a spear (referenced)

hey guys
check this one out
the thing at the bottom of the pic is suppose to be the back of a lion
but i didn't bother to finish it
neways
shower me with crits :-)
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Old 03-26-2007, 06:11 AM   #2
RedWngBlckBrd
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I have three comments-

Her upperback is shaped like a man's and her lower ribs appear to be lax and droopy. I would try to get her ribcage rendered very round and egglike really get that crisp and thing of your shading in more general terms of how an egg would catch light- not so much in terms of all those fractured little muscle groups... you jumped to defining the muscles before the underlying anatomy was there.

The armband was confusing to me because the stuff hanging off it is visually intertwined with her armpit- I couldn't figure out if it was armpit hair, more muscles or if she was wearing a fur capelet... the line of the band tripped me up as a sleeve edge... you might consider thickening the band up (3d width and depth!) and giving it a highlight so it has more mass... and allowing the feather stuff to blow away from her body- opening up some negative space there.

Lion- he's as important as she is- was he not finished because you ran out of page?... or was this all your scanner would fit? I think that making sketches to start to pull together your scene is great- but in those sketches you would also begin to understand the size and angle of your large cat and set up a scene which could accomidate him. Basicly- I don't understand why you would put the time into bringing her up to this level of finish when it was apparent from the first few sketchy lines that the lion was cut off in a very boring way.

Lastly- I think that girls who walk around naked with big cats don't get dragged like they have a misbehaved dalmation on the end of the leash... the lion stays by her side because of loyalty and devotion- she doesn't have a fighting chance to hold him on that strap. Drop the leash and put her steadying hand on his shoulder.

Fourth- I think some whispy blowing hair is in order.

I am linking two pictures of Brandi Chastain (soccer champ) here... my opinion is that her body is about as buff as a woman's can get before it starts getting into mannish or ultra stylized bodybuilder dimensions. It almost seems like you have drawn two different people above and below the waist. I know that different people may have different ideas about how muscular a woman can be before femininity takes a hit. I think Brandi has a great bod and would be a wonderful reference model for this sort of character.
http://www.callutheran.edu/Academic_...i_cheering.jpg

http://enquirer.com/editions/2003/06/09/soc_zoom.jpg
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:58 PM   #3
3rdey3
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wow...
thanx for the comment
u r right, i did ran out of page
i just wanted to draw the girl,not the lion
by the way, it's a referenced art, it's not my creation
here's the link to the real thing
<http://vallejo.ural.net/1987/show.php?003>
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Old 03-27-2007, 02:45 PM   #4
RedWngBlckBrd
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33- Seeing the reference picture makes things a lot clearer to me. Honestly all the places in your drawing which I though needed some help, which were weak... we also problematic in the original piece (like the awkward wrist on the woman's right arm) You were being true to something that maybe wasn't as flowing or true to life as you might have made it, had you been working from the same reference picture... which brings me to the idea that the original painting looks like it was done straight out of a muscle mag with some token jungle props thrown in. The poses are pure stage form bodybuilding which makes them look pretty stiff and frozen. You are going to have a hard time getting away from that. If you want to study the muscle form anatomy- that is a pretty good place to look- just remember to take a break and look at real people now and then so you can get grounded again and your women don't wind up looking like men. I think you are a very skilled draftsman and have a very keen sense of observation... the fact that you copied the weaknesses in the original piece so honestly- makes me think that you would do really well to get as close to life as you can- go to the source and cut out the middle man... you can do better without Valejo's help. Your observation skills are A+
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Old 03-27-2007, 03:07 PM   #5
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I think you did a fine job with the shading and recreation, seeing as you did reference it, you can only go so far with it. I really like the way you got her face, almost looks like boris himself sketched it...almost. I gained a lot from referencing Vallejo's stuff, and it's not a bad place to look.

It seemed it should have been obvious you weren't trying to include the lion since you said it was a reference pic, you must've referenced exactly what you wanted to work on, right? so screw the lion. I love Boris's stuff, you did find recreating it, and that's the thing, a recreation will never look as good as the original.

Hey redwing, how the hell do you know how hard that lion is tugging and what the moral characteristics of that lion are? stop trying to define the picture according to your ideas. And as for her hair, maybe it's not windy.

Boris Vallejo always looks at real people for reference and anatomy, and he's got an extraordinary grip on realistic perspective, one of the best Iv'e ever seen. I don't think there's anything wrong with that wrist. Boris has some of the most animated, exciting poses I've ever seen, so he's not a bad place to look for references, and he's always emphasized body structure and muscle mass, people can draw manly women if they want, you didn't even try to take the picture for what it was, just went about saying what was wrong with it.

You've made some pretty stupid assumptions about someone's drawing, naked chicks with big cats don't get dragged? I gotta ask how you would know, how often do you see this that gives you an expert opinion?

Sorry for not critting on your drawing much here, 3rdey3, it mainly just erked me pretty bad that this redwing started throwing around such stupid, presumptuous assumptions about how it should or would be, when I can't see how he'd have any idea. Unless you're standing there in that jungle and have gotten to be good friends with that girl and her lion, I suggest you stick to crits about lines and shading.

ridiculous. screw the lion, he's as important as 3rdey3 wants him to be in the picture. he wasn't referencing lions. judging by his past posts he's a big fan of female anatomy, I can relate, I hope you can, too, redwing, and I think he got what he needed out of the pic.
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Old 03-27-2007, 05:22 PM   #6
RedWngBlckBrd
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Sorry Capn- i see I ruffled your feathers. I'll confess that I'm not a big fan of Vallejo but when I followed up I tried to give 33 as fair a crit on it as I could putting my own feelings aside and just focusing on 33's drawing. When I made my first comment I didn't understand what "referenced" meant... I also reference my own stuff from photos, and I thought that's what that meant, I didn't know another artist's work had been referenced.

As far as the moral makeup of lions, I can just say that I usually assume that Lions who are not loyal and voluntarily submissive or at least showing some self control around girls... eat them for breakfast.

My point about the cut off lion was that you never know how your drawing is going to turn out when you start it- it might be one of your favorite drawings ever- but the chopped off lion is always going to be annoying, no matter how beautifully the girl is rendered- he's not just a bisected tree trunk- he's a LION! If he's that unimportant and the study ends at the girl's hip- then just draw the woman- skip the lion. If you don't want to get involved in rendering the whole lion- then sketch his ghost and mass- suggest him with a respectful filled in shadow or some blocky shading or leave his profile as negative space and render the forest behind him... there are many many artful ways to draw a girl with a lion without rendering the lion and without chopping him off at the head. We could then focus your attention (and the viewers) on rendering the skin of the female if that's what the goal of the sketch is- Getting your subject gracefully and artfully within your picture frame is as important if not more- than your ability to shade... 33 is not a baby draftsman so I think it's fair to say at this point you have got to start thinking about the future of your drawings as the production of a beautiful entity (sketch, mock up or polished oil painting! all deserve the same regard in terms of setting up for the construction of an image) It's not like we are in math class and you have a two inch margin to cram our expression... we have theoretically an unlimited volume of paper out there compared to the amount of people with the ability to draw lions... so... people who can draw lions - should give themself enough paper to draw (or not draw) the lion.

Not that it's relevant to the conversation, but I am a woman (never had a pet lion)... so those opinions are just projections as much as yours would be. I did just post a picture on the pictures page.

33- I hope that my clarification does not sound like I really care that much about the lion's head cut off- I know it was just a sketch- I was just saying for next time- start thinking about this because you are getting to/already at that level.
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Old 03-27-2007, 05:58 PM   #7
CapNChapM
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you never know how your drawing will turn out, but you usually have an idea of how your drawing of someone else's drawing will turn out. He did what he set out to do. I still don't think it's important.

You don't watch national geographic? big bad ol' lions don't just eat everything for breakfast. Maybe the lion is like Dr. Cox on Scrubs (if you watch) aloof and reserved, assertive, but not a killer. That possibility is reason enough for that lion not to have to be right next to her.

Sorry for turning your crit post into a different conversation 3rdey3.
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:01 AM   #8
3rdey3
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hey Capn - don't say sorry
to frankly say, i rather enjoyed reading your replies
redwing - u r right about one thing, i shouldn't have drawn the lion and at first i didn't even intend to. but as i finished drawing her right hand, it seemed awkward to me. coz in the real pic she is holding a leash. so as i put the leash on her hand i also had to tie the other end to something. that's why the lions back came in.
neways, thanx for ur crits everyone.. (^_^)
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